3: Can science and yoga co-exist?

In this episode of the Enlightened Anatomy Podcast, hosted by Matthew Huy, listeners are introduced to the relationship between science and yoga, with a focus on applying scientific principles to enhance yoga teaching and practice. Matthew shares his journey from dance to a master's in exercise science, emphasizing his rekindled love for science and its importance in clarifying thought and reducing biases. The episode covers the definitions of science, observational and experimental evidence, the significance of evidence and critical thinking in science, and the hierarchy of evidence quality from systematic reviews to expert opinions. Matthew also discusses critical thinking, the burden of proof, and how science can deepen our understanding of yoga's effects on physical and mental health, including the autonomic nervous system and exercise adaptations. He encourages listeners to apply critical thinking to yoga, considering scientific evidence in practice and teaching to improve physical activity and health outcomes.

00:00 Welcome to the Enlightened Anatomy Podcast
00:21 The Intersection of Science and Yoga
00:39 A Personal Journey with Science
01:33 Defining Science and Its Methods
02:57 The Importance of Evidence in Science
04:06 Critical Thinking: The Heart of Science
06:53 Understanding the Pyramid of Evidence
15:37 Science Meets Yoga: Enhancing Practice and Teaching
18:26 The Power of Exercise and Body Adaptation
21:50 Concluding Thoughts on Science and Yoga
22:28 Engage with the Podcast

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Transcript

Please note that this transcription is automatically generated and may contain errors.

Episode 3: What is science?

Saz: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Enlightened Anatomy Podcast, where we take a deep dive into the worlds of anatomy, physiology and science to help you feel more confident and inspired as a yoga teacher. Now here's your host, Matthew Huy.

Matthew's Journey with Science and Yoga

Matthew: Hello and welcome to episode three of the Enlightened Anatomy Podcast, where today we'll be looking at what is science, and we're going to find out how we can apply science to yoga and actually why we should. So I love science. Um, I. I didn't at first. In fact, I dropped outta my first university as I was pursuing a science degree, um, in favor for a dance degree,

but then I later went back and got my master's in exercise science and re- [00:01:00] fell in love with science. So it's definitely true that you need to be ready for the teachings.

So why do I love science? I think it is a beautiful way of examining how we think and thinking more clearly, which fits in with the yoga sutras and the ancient texts of yoga, which talk about getting rid of our biases and, the lenses through which we view the world so that we can view the world more clearly.

Though, can we view the world without bias entirely? I think that's impossible. 

Defining Science and Its Methods

Matthew: So first of all, what is science? Okay, , let's start with the definition of it very briefly. Science is the systematic knowledge of the physical and natural world arrived at through both observation and experimentation is kind of a, a simple definition of it.

So in science, we will [00:02:00] observe the world and also experiment with it. And those are two different methods of science. Observational evidence is basically going into the world and seeing, for example , based on reports, how many injuries happen as a result of yoga. Okay, that's observational evidence. Whereas experimental evidence happens when you take a group of people, for example, half of them do yoga, half of them don't do yoga.

And what outcomes are observed? And of course, you should be clear on what you're observing. Are you looking at blood pressure? Are you looking at mental wellness or whatever? And it, your question should be laid out very clearly. And then also along the way, while you're experimenting, you can see how many adverse events or injuries occurred

as a result, okay? And that tends to be more reliable evidence and less biased as opposed to the observational, uh, evidence. But nonetheless, uh, both are an [00:03:00] important element of science and evidence is in short,

the available body of facts or information. Indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid. , 

The Importance of Evidence in Science

Matthew: Now, that's quite a broad definition, but evidence basically has to have some backing to it, and it's really important in science that we can justify how we arrived at that conclusion. for example, in a scientific study, you should be able to very clearly talk about the methods that you used to test, whether yoga lowered someone's blood pressure.

So it's all well and good to, you know, make a blog post or an Instagram post saying 

"This pose is really good for reducing blood pressure," but then if there's no evidence behind it and there's no citing of references, then that's not scientific knowledge.

And the claim that yoga [00:04:00] lowers blood pressure is a bold claim and there should be some evidence behind it.

Critical Thinking in Science

Matthew: An important element of science is critical thinking. And I know that might sound a bit boring, right? But actually I'm gonna prove to you, show you that critical thinking is actually sexy. So what is critical thinking? It is analyzing how we think with a view to improving it so that we can think more logically, more reasonably, and without bias,

or at least with less bias. And isn't that a worthy thing to try to pursue, to try to think more logically, reasonably, and to be able to express ourselves more clearly? Important elements of critical thinking include accuracy, precision, fairness, and good evidence. So a critical thinker will ask themselves these sorts of questions.

What are my beliefs on a topic? So, for example, do I believe yoga can lower [00:05:00] blood pressure? Do I believe yoga can cure cancer? Or whatever my belief is that bananas are good for me, et cetera, . Now what information am I using to come to my conclusion? is another good question to ask yourself. Is it just a blog post that you read with no references to it, uh, an an Instagram post, or is it based on some solid evidence arrived at through a rigorous process of experimentation and/or observation. 

What assumptions have led me to this conclusion? So, I believe bananas are good for my health. Well, why do I believe that? What uh, assumptions have I had to make?

And then lastly, and I think this is the most beautiful question, what evidence against my hypothesis exists? So in other words, what evidence against what I believe exists? What we tend to do is, . have an idea, an opinion in our head, and then [00:06:00] we Google for support of that opinion.

So what we tend to do is we tend to look for information confirming what we already believe. So for example, we might look at information showing that yoga can improve thyroid conditions or something like that.

Okay? And so, well, we search Google yoga improves thyroid, however, what we should also do is consider any evidence against that belief. So is there evidence out there that yoga actually has no effect on the thyroid? And then put all that information together to arrive at a truer understanding of, of what is actually happening.

And someone who is not a critical thinker, would say, I don't care what the facts say, I'm going to believe what I want to believe. 

The Pyramid of Evidence

Matthew: In science, there is a pyramid of evidence, [00:07:00] and at the highest level of the pyramid, we have the highest quality of evidence. It's the least common and it tends to have the least amount of bias.

And at the bottom of the period, we have the lowest quality of evidence, okay? And most prone to bias. And so sitting at the top is what is called a systematic review. A systematic review looks at all of the evidence below the top of the pyramid. 

Not just anyone can conduct a systematic review, it has to be done in a rigorous way.

There are certain protocols to follow. It has to be replicable. If someone else did the same study, they should arrive at the same results. So in a systematic review, you have to list out all the keywords that you used to search the scientific databases. There there are a number of scientific databases, including Google Scholar, PubMed, and a few others.

And so scientists will look at these databases and clearly state the keywords that they used, so for example, [00:08:00] yoga and blood pressure.

And then the scientists will look at all the studies that have happened before, synthesize that information, maybe even do their own analysis of the data, and then come to a conclusion. And the conclusion might be, yes, yoga can lower blood pressure in people with heightened blood pressure by a certain amount potentially, or the conclusion might be there's no good evidence that yoga can lower blood pressure.

I can tell you in our book the Physiology of Yoga, we do look at that very question whether yoga can reduce blood pressure. And while there are not a ton of great studies on it, there is some hopeful evidence or some prosing evidence that yoga can reduce blood pressure in people with, uh, hypertension to some degree.

And so it can be considered an additional treatment to, using, , hypertensives to help [00:09:00] reduce blood pressure. 

and just below the, that systematic review is randomized controlled trials.

That is a trial where you take a group of people, half of them are involved in an intervention, which just means they do something , they take a pill or they, um, do yoga or they swim, whatever. That is called an intervention. And the other group is a control group. They don't do that thing. And what might be a good idea is that they're put on a wait list so that they think they're going to be doing something soon, but they're basically just waiting and then you conclude the study and then after, say six weeks or longer, because it takes a minimum of about six weeks for any significant physiological effects to occur.

Then you look at the difference between the two groups and as much as possible you try to reduce confounding variables. You try to reduce outside influences. Now we are humans, and that's pretty much [00:10:00] impossible, right? We all have lots of, uh, confounding variables in our life. You know, we get a, a call with some bad news.

We get an email, uh, an upsetting email. These things can affect us, and then they can affect how good we feel they can affect our health. All all kinds of things. Okay? So this is why. . Drug trials, you know, for pharmaceuticals are done in a hospital where people will be in a hospital under ideal conditions, as in reducing the amount of outside influences that they have so that they can really focus on the question of, does aspirin actually reduce your headaches?

Yeah. Now that's not possible, is it? For yoga, you can't really take people and put 'em in a hospital and just have 'em do yoga and nothing else. So, science, , is a very narrow way of viewing the world. But it is a way in which we can arrive at, more solid answers to our [00:11:00] questions. at answers that are, are more based in likelihood of being true.

I know that all sounds a little bit vague, but that is the reality of science and the question of what causes what is, is central to science and one that is actually really difficult to answer. . . Now , 

Challenges in Studying Yoga Scientifically

Matthew: Not everything can be studied in a randomized controlled way. , and not everything can be done in a double blind way. For example, I cannot hide the fact that you are doing yoga from you . If you are doing yoga, you know you're doing yoga. And so if we look at the benefits of yoga, how much of it is the actual yoga and how much of it is you knowing that you're looking after yourself and doing yoga. Do you see what I mean? So it's not as easy as taking a pill one, one being a placebo, and one being the active drug. Either way, you're doing something and you don't know which one you're taking. [00:12:00] But we cannot hide the fact from you that you are doing yoga.

And there have been plenty of studies that have found that your expectation greatly affects your outcome. Your expectation of, of how you improve from this current episode of back pain or how you improve from your knee surgery is at least in part, dependent on how you expect yourself to improve, and there's lots of good science on this.

Furthermore, a randomized control trial does not include what's called qualitative evidence. Qualitative evidence is where you, ask people questions. It's kind of an interview style, and then you analyze their answers. This is considered , observational evidence, and through qualitative evidence, we've learned some really interesting things about back pain

for example. we've learned about how people with back pain, especially people with chronic back pain, tend to view their backs [00:13:00] as very vulnerable and fragile. And that can then have a compounding effect on these people's back pain itself. So we've learned more about the psychological and social factors that can affect back pain, and those psychosocial factors are now an important element in treating back pain.

And qualitative evidence was at least in part. Used to help arrive at these conclusions.

further down the pyramid, we have case studies and case reports. Case studies are individual studies, you know, of, of one person and, and that can have its role, but you can only, gain so much information from one person's experience as opposed to a group of people having the same experience.

 and then at the bottom of the pyramid are editorials expert opinion and background information.

So our book, The Physiology of Yoga would be at the bottom of that pyramid actually. We're not [00:14:00] presenting any new evidence. . We are just, uh, sharing the information, the evidence that is already available and it is a bit of background information.

Going a little bit further into critical thinking, I want to share a metaphor by Bertrand Russell, who was a 20th century philosopher. So this metaphor, which I first learned about as part of my master's degree when we were looking at research methods is called Russell's Teapot. So Bertrand Russell said, if I were to assert that there is a tiny, tiny teapot revolving around the sun, somewhere between Earth and Mars, but it is too small for anyone to see it, even with the most powerful telescopes, even with any imaging or technology we have, you cannot see it, but you have to take my word for it. And he said, if I were to assert that, then I shouldn't expect anyone to believe me [00:15:00] unless I myself can prove it. So his metaphor is about the burden of proof.

Carl Sagan said, . Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. So just because someone says something is true doesn't mean it necessarily is just because they've said it 

And the burden of proof should be on the person making the claim. So I think that's just an interesting way of thinking about critical thinking and analyzing what we believe and whether what we believe is actual truth. 

Science and Yoga: A Symbiotic Relationship

Matthew: Now let's look at how science and yoga can coexist and how actually learning about science can deepen our yoga practice and improve our yoga teaching.

So science can help us understand how yoga can affect our physiology, how yoga [00:16:00] might improve mental health, how yoga can have certain emotional benefits. Scientists could look at, for example, yoga for stress reduction, which would include the neuroscience of the stress response and how yoga impacts it.

As part of your yoga teacher training, you probably learned about the fight or flight response, which is, more scientifically known as the sympathetic response or the arousal response. the fight or flight is on the extreme end, and on the other end of this spectrum is the rest and digest response, which is part of the parasympathetic branch of the nervous system.

Now our body is constantly going between these two nervous systems. even with every breath, we have a slight sympathetic response and then parasympathetic response, a slight arousal , as in our heart rate increases with every inhale and a slight relaxation, our heart rate slows down [00:17:00] with every exhale.

When you need to get up and move yourself around and get ready for work, you're gonna put yourself to some degree, a little bit into this sympathetic response, and that's a good thing. It helps get you moving and motivate you to get you out the door. And the same way that I. Once you're sitting down on the, on the sofa at the end of the day, how hard it is to get up because you are more into that parasympathetic that rest and digest.

 And we are constantly going between the two. So it's not like you are always stuck in fight or flight. I mean, that is possible that you could have an overactive fight or flight response and you know that can create a lot of problems.

But in science, we can look at . can yoga affect people's ability to move in and out of those systems, in and out of those branches of the autonomic nervous system? And it seems like it can actually, there's some good evidence to show that yoga and even slow breathing can help to create a parasympathetic response or that rest and digest state.

At [00:18:00] the same time, , in the middle of an active Vinyasa class, yes, you will be having a sympathetic response, and that's a good thing because you want your heart rate to increase, you want your blood pressure to increase so you can get blood to the muscles to get you to balance and Warrior three, and then to move into Half Moon and then to balance and your handstand, you need that sympathetic response.

Our body is always changing and it's a beautiful balance.

Understanding science can help deepen your yoga practice. 

Understanding the Body's Adaptation

Matthew: For example. Something that I think every human should know is that our body adapts to the demands placed on it. When you start picking up weights or even just doing press-ups with your own body weight, you will get stronger.

No one in the absence of certain medical conditions, does not respond to exercise. Though there will be high responders and low responders, everyone adapts favorably to exercise, to movement, to strengthening your body. And [00:19:00] when you know that, I think it can really help you to understand how to use your body and to appreciate actually by continuing to move, that's gonna help me strengthen my body.

My body is not subject to wear and tear like a car. . When you are using a car, it's just going to slowly degradeits tires don't get stronger. Its engine does become more powerful, but your body does, and that's the incredible thing. When you load your bones, your your skeleton gets stronger.

It increases the bone mineral density when you lift weights, including your own body weight, whether you're doing a pull up, a handstand, or even just a lunge. If you're not, you know, acclimated to that, then your muscles will get stronger. And even your connective tissue, including fascia, tendons, ligaments, we know those get stronger too.

In this way. Knowing about how the body adapts, , which we've come to realize through decades and decades of [00:20:00] research. T helps us to use our body in a more intelligent way and to know actually that it's okay to load it, that it's okay to strengthen it. Recently I had a client in class who was worried about doing their Chaturanga safely and correctly, and as a result, they just weren't doing any chaturangas.

And I , my response was. Do more pushups, just do 'em . She was worried about being hypermobile and potentially injuring your shoulder. And then I'm not saying it's impossible to injure your yourself doing pushups. Yeah. Okay. It's possible, yes. Okay. You can injure yourself doing anything as we know, like bending down, picking something above the floor or you know, putting your baby in the car, whatever. 

But the important thing to know is that your body always adapts. And if you want to get better at chatter, remember it's just the bottom of a press up or pushup. [00:21:00] So work on your pushups to get your shoulders stronger so that you can do better chatter's. And we also know through lots of research also, that people who are stronger have fewer injuries in certain parts of their body.

And lastly, the benefits of exercise really outweigh the risks, in terms of reducing your, your risk of many types of serious chronic conditions, including type two diabetes, certain cancers, cardiovascular disease, stroke, dementia.

Depression. We know exercise significantly reduces your risk of all of those things and many more. So we should not be discouraging people from moving their bodies, but actually encouraging more physical activity, more movement, more loading as much as possible.

Conclusion and Call to Action

Matthew: So that concludes our, our look at science. which is a systematic way of looking at the world and trying to see it a clearer way. [00:22:00] I hope you appreciate how science can be used to help deepen our yoga practice, whether that means how you use your body, understanding how our bodies adapt, or understanding whether yoga can reduce blood pressure, and that you use critical thinking rather than just making. 

 claims without any evidence but actually trying to look at the evidence behind it, and that's why I'm here to help look at the scientific evidence and share it with you, dear listener. 

If you've enjoyed this episode, take a screenshot on your player and upload it to Instagram and tag me or Facebook and I'll be sure to share it. Also, if you haven't already, please do subscribe to the podcast and finally leave a rating or review. I would greatly appreciate it and it helps other yoga teachers and yoga practitioners discover it.

Thank you very much and I look forward to sharing more science-based information with you. So until then, get enlightened and help [00:23:00] others.